A Life & Death Conversation Between Spiritual Teachers

In 2012 Raphael Cushnir, a spiritual teacher, interviewed Paul about his near death experiences and open heart surgery in 2011 and how these catastrophic events changed him and what he has learned from them. Paul shares about his journey of emergence from devastating loss and "undoing" on every level to a renewed sense of self and vision for the next phase of his and Layne's legacy for authentic, enlightened relating.

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Quotes from the interview:

“I experience an intimate relationship between the breath and emotion. It is in relationship that we experience our deepest feelings of pain and hurt and disconnection and isolation and separation, and our deepest emotions of love and connection and transcendence and understanding and compassion.”

“There was this whole psychological process that went on as well as the physical process. And one of the most surprising things was how I did not want to do the work that I’ve been doing with my wife and partner for the last 36 years. I didn’t want to do it anymore.”

“What does this mean about the work, the business that we have devoted the last 36 years of our life to? We just . . . let that go?”

“Authenticity…gives credence to anything that we might say as a teacher of any kind.”

NOTE: This conversation may touch on areas and issues of relevance to your own life and circumstances.  It is not a "data download" or something that lends itself to multitasking. Therefore, we suggest listening with mindfulness and presence.

Click the image below to listen now or right click and select Save Link As to download:

Length - 1 hr 20 min

Please leave a comment below. We sincerely value your comments and questions and will always do our best to respond.

You can learn more about Raphael and his work here. And you can listen to other interviews in Teaching What We Need to Learn here.


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